Salon Ownership: The Neurodivergent Advantage (With Amy Vince)

With up to 20% of the population considered neurodivergent, and unemployment rates for neurodivergent individuals as high as 40%, it's great to be able to share a success story that shows that not only is success possible when you describe yourself as neuro-spicy, but it can even be an advantage. Here to share her journey today is salon owner and educator, Amy Vince. Let's get her on the show, shall we? Your salon. Amy, welcome to the Build Your Salon podcast. Oh my goodness. Hi. How are you? I'm good. I'm so pleased we finally, finally got around to recording this episode. It's only taken us, what, 18 months? I know. We're both busy, so we have not very busy schedules to make it happen, but we are here and I'm so excited. Good, good. I'm pleased to have you on. So why don't you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about your journey for those people that might not have come across you before. Yeah, so I always kind of describe myself as a little neuro-spicy salon owner. I've won multiple, what, nearly nine years in the industry and I have just expanded my salon. So I started, well, I started way back when learning how to lash and do brows and things like that, after I actually got made redundant from working in the nightclub industry. So I used to do sales and marketing for nightclubs and yeah, they made our roles redundant. So I thought, what, what can I do that's, you know, going to work for me and I can be creative. I can do all these things. So I thought, right, I'm going to give it a go. And yeah, I'm so glad I did because it's just been a great, great journey. Mm hmm. OK, so we've got the kind of the creation of the business journey as a result of that, that redundancy. But I also want to kind of pair that with your with your neuro-spicy journey, as you describe it. So when when did you first realize that perhaps you were using your brain in a slightly different way to maybe other people? And what did that feel like, that realization? Ever since I was in primary school, I've always known that there's been something a little bit different. I had a one to one when I was in primary school and that got lost within the sort of secondary school. And I always struggled academically, like maths, English, things like that, but loved art. So when I left school, I failed both maths and English, but I got an A star in art.

So I just knew ever since, you know, that secondary school age that I worked slightly different to the normal person at school. And it was actually when I went to sixth form college that I got diagnosed dyslexic. So that kind of started to make sense. And I thought, oh, maybe it was just that. And it wasn't actually until I set up my own business nearly four years ago that I then started to struggle in other aspects. And all of the patterns of my behaviour and the way I work and where I am linked so heavily back to ADHD that I actually went private and got a diagnosis. I was 29 actually, nearly a couple of years ago, and it all just made so much sense. So it was really helpful for me to get that diagnosis because it made sense as how I worked and then gave me answers to go forward and how to use that within the business. Okay. So that actually sounds like that diagnosis process was really positive for you then. And actually there was some relief and some release in understanding. Absolutely. I think it's really difficult as a woman, you know, we have hormones, we have all of these things, but when you're realising actually like, no, I'm different to other people. And to have that diagnosis, it was like, oh, like this weight had been lifted off my shoulders. Like everything makes sense now. Like I can stop beating myself up when I might be so forgetful. You know, I've got this drive in me and it's because of that. So actually, for me, it was a really positive experience and made me understand myself a lot better. Mm hmm. And you've always been very open and honest with me. So you've been part of my coaching group and the coaching community for a little while. And you've always been very open and honest with us about about your ADHD and your diagnosis. Are you open and honest with your clients and team members? Do they do they understand what's going on with you, too? Yeah, absolutely. I don't think I can hide it. I'm a bit that shit crazy sometimes. But I think it's some people say, oh, you know, it's just a label you just want. But actually, if you allow people to understand, then if you are having a bad day or if you do forget something, they can kind of see where it's coming from. So, yeah, a lot of my clients actually I have confided in if I've had a bad day or, you know, they might be going something similar. They might have children or I think most of my clients are actually have ADHD. This is why we're all such good friends because we just understand each other. So, yeah, I don't.

It's not something I push on to everyone, but it's something that I do talk about and let people know, especially staff as well, because it might be I say something and it comes across abrupt or rude or it doesn't land as well as I wanted it to. So I always say, just to let you know, if anything comes across, I apologize in advance. But yeah, I think. Yeah, you know, and everyone's different. So have you come across anyone, anybody who's got kind of misconceptions about ADHD or perhaps didn't quite understand or perhaps made some assumptions that weren't quite accurate? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've had both ends of the spectrum. You know, I've had people misunderstand. They're like, oh, you know, you don't listen. You don't pay attention. You're not interested in our conversations or you think you're superior to us because you do this and you do that. And it can be really not a positive thing. And some people just don't understand. And I just think it's that lack of education around it that people then presume you're just these things when there is an answer behind it. And those traits can be a bad thing and sometimes it's up in a negative light. OK, you've used the expression having a bad day a couple of times. So I just kind of I don't I don't want to kind of wallow in the disadvantages to be a really hopeful episode. But what does a bad day look like? How can that how can that play out and what sort of impact does that have? Like emotional dysregulation. So you can be up and down. You can take things really to heart when they're so minor and just scattiness like it's the forgetfulness. And you might put your car key somewhere and you're going to be late for work and then you just can't find your car keys and it ruins your day or it. There's been unorganized or there's nothing worse when a like a client turns up at the door and you're like, oh, my God, have you got an appointment? So then, oh, yeah, I text you like a couple of weeks ago and you've read the message and you've completely forgotten that it even landed in your inbox and you haven't actioned it. And so, yeah, there's there is definitely negatives to it, but majority of my experience is actually it's my superpower on my best days. Cool. OK, we're going to dive into that. But before we do, I want to kind of go back a little bit into the into the creation of the business. And I was wondering whether I'm always intrigued as to as to why people create their own businesses rather than.

And let's face it, everyone's begging, you know, for recruits at the moment. Everyone's looking for beauty therapists and hairdressers in our industry. So so what made you want to create your own business rather than than go and work for someone else? In all honesty, I'm a rubbish employee. I just kind of go the flow, do my own thing. And I think when you're employed, you have to stick to, you know, regulations, rules. You have to do that and, you know, very outside the box a lot of the time. So for me, I find it quite hard to confide confide in those, you know, boxes that they give you. So I always knew that I wanted to go down this avenue, but I was actually employed in a salon for three and a half years. And I really value that experience and that time I had as an employee because it taught me so much. And, you know, those things that did did work, didn't work. And I've taken nuggets of all of that and implemented some of that into the expansion of my salon. But yeah, it was great to have that. But I knew deep down that I wanted to have my own business and be my own boss, just the flexibility. And if I wanted to action something, I could do it or I could try something. I could order a different brand or try a different treatment. I had that ability to do that. And that's what really attracted me to like setting up my own business. Hmm. And I wonder whether there's something around because what you're describing is that kind of trying lots of different in my head. It's almost like trying lots of different hats on and trying to see what fits and what doesn't and what works in the business and what doesn't. I wonder if that's a reflection of how your mind works with with the ADHD. Does that feel familiar? Yeah, we're quite good at I always sort of look at it as like a train track, you know, like most people would have to connect the train track and go up and then come back down in a different lane. Whereas I can literally just jump to jump to jump to track. I can and a few at the same time, you know, I can have a tab open for this and tab open for that. And I could kind of multitask those things. And actually, it's quite a good skill to have definitely.

And when you do run your own business, you have to wear all those hats. You have to be the accountant, the social media manager, you know, the therapist, everything in one. So it's actually, I think, why a lot of women are attracted to this industry who are a little bit neuro spicy because it plays to our skill base. Hmm. Yeah, I guess it's kind of the creativity. The creativity and the variety. But I wonder how that plays out in terms of, you know, you've spoken a little bit about relationships and how there can be tension in relationships as a result of the neuro spicy aspect to you. I wonder how much of a challenge that is in client relationships in particular. Yeah, I think you do really have to nurture those relationships with clients, but I also like without the clients, I wouldn't have a business like you have to put your energy into creating really good relationships. And I think we're quite good, even though sometimes we can be forgetful in the little things, you know, I have clients and I remember the name of their dog or I remember their kids had sports day or. And, you know, when they next come in, you know, how did the kids get on a sports and they're like, oh, that's really nice. And we've had comments of people being like, I've been to other salons and they don't even remember my name or, you know, remember seeing me before. But you remember all these things and it's that personal touch and people are craving that, I think, very much at the minute with the way the world is. So, yeah, our personalities and it really actually complements the role. I really want to dive into you kind of labelled it as something of a superpower for you. And we've talked about the ability to kind of juggle lots of different tasks and that analogy about jumping tracks really easily. Is there anything else that's actually an advantage in the business? Oh, God, yeah. Like when when you are so passionate about something, you just have this drive, this engine in you all the time and you just don't stop until you've got there. So, yeah, if a task excites me, I'm like all in. And I think being able to juggle and spin all the different plates is a really big advantage because you can have a couple of projects on the go at the same time and like want to do them and have that energy to do it. So it definitely plays into being a very, very good superpower on most days. And then you've obviously got the salon side and you've built a team and it sounds like you've you've got a relationship with the team where they kind of understand what's going on and they cut you a little bit of slack when they need to.

And they're probably starting to navigate your your your monkey brain a little bit, too. But you've also on top of that, you've got a training academy. And I wondered how how the ADHD side plays out with that. Does do you think it changes the way that you train? Do you approach training in a different way to other people or do you attract different people? How does that how does that play out? How does your experience shape what you're teaching and how you're teaching? Yeah, I think I actually have people message me that I wouldn't be good at this. I'm dyslexic. I'm like, you're joking. Like, so am I this. This is why you'd be so good at this. And so my training is really based on a lot of hands on. So they actually complete their theory online before they come. We obviously touch base on it, but I want them to come in and, you know, pick up the tweezers, feel the lashes, do the treatment, watch and have a chance to do that. And I think we learn so much better hands on experience. You know, you could give us a booklet and tell us to read it and we wouldn't have the attention span to read it or we would jump down the pages or we'd get sidetracked on social media or stuff like that. So for me, I think I understand the student walking through the door. I want once was them. And with all of my experience over the eight years, I really have channeled that into the training to give such a good package. I don't only just teach them the skills to carry out the treatment, but also give them like fundamental business know how as well. So we go over how to set up your business bank account and, you know, set up a booking system and set up your social media. So it is different to other training because I am different and the way I teach is slightly different. But I think women or men coming through to train really appreciate that extra mile that I've gone through to understand and give that extra knowledge. So, yeah, it's been really good. I've had some great, great students come through and they're succeeding already, already. So, yeah, it's clearly doing something right. And are you able to, I know when I've been working with people who have been a bit neuro spicy in the past, sometimes part of my job is to help with kind of goal setting future plans and what that might look like.

And actually, some of those people have found that quite a struggle. So I wondered whether that was something that you navigate well or is that something that you struggle with? And what does the future look like as far as as far as your business is concerned? I mean, it's taken being self, like a self-employed or sole trader. That will be four years anniversary in May. And it's taken, it probably took me a couple of years to actually really learn about money management and target, you know. So, and the first year I was like, I'm self-employed, I've got all this money. And a typical trait of ADHD is we are absolutely crap with money management. And I was, I spent all the tax. I had to put a payment plan to HMRC to pay my first year of tax back. And I thought, I am not doing this again. So, you know, even as year on year, I'm still learning about myself, still learning about the business and the skills that you need. So, I, you know, no one's perfect and it's, it's taken me a while, but definitely with the expansion of the salon, I have had to get a lot stricter with setting the goals and managing my expectations for the success of the salon. Obviously, I've got my girl Holly's wages to pay and pensions and that and all of those things. So each sort of chapter of the business, I grow and so does my skill set. Um, so I've definitely got better at planning forward. I was very much when you're on your own, you make what you make, you can get by, especially when I was at home, I didn't have rent. Whereas now I'm like, right, I need to predict the income. So good old chat GPT, I tend to put my bank statements into there and he can say, cancel this subscription or you need to really tighten up on this. So it's using my data and then predicting forward what I need to, what the salon needs to bring in. And that's really, really helped me sort of feel a lot calmer and more in control and manage my money by doing all of that prep work. And you've just mentioned, um, AI and chat GPT in particular. So while we're there, um, what if someone else is listening and someone else is, is, is facing similar struggles to you? What other kinds of tools and techniques have you, have you brought in and put in place to, to help you navigate business ownership? Like he's my best friend. He's on my phone in my pocket. I can ask him anything I want, anytime. And when you're a business owner, it can feel really lonely and not a lot of people understand, like the predicaments or the decisions that you have to make.

And it's really good going into something like that and being like, right, I want to achieve X, Y, Z. Instead, this is my certain circumstances or these are the top, like what I have. And you can really just pop in there things that you want to achieve or say, can you help me lay out this plan? Like break it down. I think we can sometimes be quite overwhelmed by a big project. In reality, all it is, is breaking it down into really manageable bite-sized pieces and ChatGPT or Claude, whoever you use is, is really good at helping with breaking that down. And they give you great tips. If you ask it, obviously to give you it back, can you act as X, Y, Z, then it will be like, oh, have you thought of this? Or don't forget to do this. So that's super, super helpful, just with little jobs that you need to create, which then obviously mount up to be your end goal. I have a little board of directors that I've put together. So I asked ChatGPT to help me research. I had a list of people that, you know, some of them, there's no way I would even meet them. Some of them are dead, for goodness sake. You know, people like Steve Jobs and I kind of selected people who I admired in different industries. And I said to ChatGPT, put together my board of directors. And now if I've got a decision, I go to the board and I talk to them about it and I get different aspects from different people. And it's a really useful little tool to help me key in. So aside from AI and ChatGPT, have you got any other tips or techniques or ways that you found that work particularly well helping you manage your business? I think you you have to be self-aware and you have to know your strengths and your weaknesses. And I know sometimes with ADHD, you can just get complete paralysis with starting a job. There was a really cool video that popped up on my Facebook probably a year ago, and it was an ADHD specialist in America. And he compared ADHD to having erectile dysfunction. And so he says, when you've got a job that you need to do and it excites you, you can get it up, you can perform, you can, you know, really do well.

And he says, but you've got a job that you really don't want to do and you can slap it around all you like. You can talk to yourself. You've got to get it up, but you just can't. And so me and my boyfriend joke when there's a job I need to do and he's like, have you got erectile dysfunction today? I'm like, yes. So it's learning. OK, well, that job gives me erectile dysfunction. I'm going to set a timer for maybe two minutes and I will start the job. And after two minutes, you've got that dopamine hit. You might have ticked something off the top of your list and you're like, oh, I'm in it now. I think the starting it is the worst bit. So for me, I will write down, I know I'll put my bit of paper into four and it might be salon admin, academy admin, personal admin. It might be that I've got to do a Zara return, but that's a big job for me. I'll split my page into four and I'll break down in each category what I need to do. Set a timer for two minutes, nine times out of 10 months, two minutes has gone past, you're in it and you're just ticking things off. So allocating the time and being in the right frame of mind. I'm lucky enough now that I work Monday to Thursday. So Fridays are my admin day in the week when I think of something I need to do. I put it on my list on Friday or goes on pen and paper and it gets ticked off. And I found that I'm so much more productive. Brilliant. Love it. You've shared some real pearls of wisdom today, but I was wondering what's the best piece of advice that you've ever been given? I think just go for it and stay in your lane. Like put your blinkers on and focus on what you want to achieve. Align your goals and just stay in your lane and just let everyone else do what they want to do. So whether you're doing the good or bad thing, someone's going to say something about it. So I just think just do what you want to do anyway. I love that. And I love that message of alignment as well. That's the biggest thing that as a business coach that I see people get wrong is that pushing towards stuff that they don't really want. Or it's not aligned with actually their values and where they where they want to see their life in five, ten years time anyway. And then they wonder why they haven't got the motivation to achieve it. Well, I never got there. Yeah, exactly. And if you were talking to someone who wanted to follow in your footsteps, what piece of advice would you leave behind for them? Take action.

No one else is going to go on and build your dreams or goals for you. You are in control of that. So just do it because life is short and you only get one shot. So just give it a go. And final question for today. What's the best thing about working with the salon industry? I just get to chat to my best friends like all day. Clients are just friends now and I love what I do. I don't ever dread. I wake up in the morning and I don't think, oh, I don't want to go to work today. I love it. And it's even more rewarding when you've created it yourself. I love that. And what a brilliant note to finish on. If somebody wants to hear more from you, they want to follow your journey, they want to hear more about the salon or the academy. What's the best way for people to keep in touch with you? Definitely Instagram. That's where I'm most active. So I've got two separate pages. So the salon is called The Hidden Beauty Rooms and the academy is called The Hidden Beauty Academy. So depending on if you want to have a nosy in the salon or you want to come and learn, they're the two best places to find me. Perfect. And I will put both of those links in the show notes below this episode. Thank you so much for your time today, Amy. I'm thrilled that we finally managed to get some time to record the episode. Oh, it's been so lovely. Thank you so much for having me. Take care. So there we have it. My chat with Amy Vince. What an inspiration. What a wonderful journey. And I'm sure we will be getting Amy back on the Build Your Salon podcast again in the future. If you'd like to feature as a guest on a future episode, why not reach out my email address scrolling at the bottom of the screen right now, phil at buildyoursalon.com. Just a few short days until I'm coming all over the internet again with another dose of my Wise Owl wisdom. And until then, take care. Thank you.