“It Nearly Cost Us Everything”—Noel Halligan on Hard Salon Truths

Success leaves clues, and as you know, I'm a big fan of anyone who is willing to innovate and find a better, different way of doing business. And if they're willing to share their story, well, I'm a fan. Here to share their journey today is award-winning hairdresser, investor, entrepreneur, and co-founder of NoCoHair, Noel Halligan. Let's get him on the show, shall we? All on Build Your Salon. Noel, welcome to the Build Your Salon podcast. Hey, Phil. How are you doing today? I'm good. I'm trying to figure out how long it is since we actually had an in-person conversation, and it's going to make us feel terribly old because it's got to be, what, six years, seven years since I spoke to you last? Yeah, yeah, but the methods are still there. It's interesting because we opened our salon, so we've got a salon in Bristol and a training academy in Bristol, and we opened our salon in November 2018. So, two days before we got the keys for the business, my first child was born. So, she's now six and turning seven in November, and it's interesting seeing the size of a child growing at the same rate as the size of the business. Wonderful. And hopefully, they'll both look after you in your old age as well. That's coming around quick. So, for people that don't know you, why don't you share a little bit about who you are, where you're from, and a bit about your journey. Yeah, thank you. So, my name's Noel Halligan. I am, as we just mentioned, a salon owner of a hair salon in Bristol. I'm the co-founder with a lady called Corey. So, we own a business called NoCo Hair, which is Noel and Corey. We opened up in 2018. Like I say, it's been a roller coaster of a journey. We very quickly won Best New Salon in the UK at the British Hairdressing Business Awards. Superb. With the help of coaches and focusing on goals and outcomes. Bearing in mind, the salon we got had, we started with eight stations, quickly got to ten stations. This was not a beginner salon. We only ended up with a big salon because no landlord would take us on to take us more because we have no history of it. And this one place that would take us on was epic. So, we had to think bigger than we were.

So, we ended up getting this place. We won Best New Salon in the UK at the British Hairdressing Business Awards, flying high, and then COVID hit. And since then, it has been one hell of a roller coaster. Okay. We'll come back to that. But before we do, I'm always really interested in the journey to ownership because obviously you were both working in the hair industry before you decide to open your own place. And there's usually something that happens or something that kind of comes together which makes people kind of go, do you know what? I want to do it my way. I want to do it for myself. So, what was that for you? I never wanted to be a salon owner. I didn't want to be a business owner. I didn't want the risk. I didn't want the responsibility. I loved playing. We were working at Sean Hanna before, a big London salon. It was incredible. At the time when I joined them, we were London Headdressers of the Year with Skylar McDonald, doing shows and shoots all over the UK and Europe and got onto the Ideartist program, did all that stuff. So, I was really enjoying being a creative within the industry. And as with any creative, you get somebody in your ear saying, like, why are you making money for someone else when you could be doing it on your own? You start thinking about coming and getting, I think what the email calls it, the entrepreneurial seizure. You kind of all of a sudden then start to go off and do your own thing. However, I got my mind into it. I was thinking I wanted to do it. And then we entered the L'Oreal Color Trophy. I was doing a bit of color but I wasn't so good at it. I ended up partnering with a girl called Corey, who's now my co-founder. And we ended up winning the Southwest region. What we found when we did it, we didn't have the words for it at the time, was I was very much a visionary, innovator, creative kind of person, good at sales, good at just making things fun. And she was very good at taking those kind of things and making them more logical and putting them into spreadsheets and making the numbers work and that type of thing. So, when we got chatting and we started playing with it, the other salon wasn't doing so well. There was a few things. But we kind of had this bigger vision and we needed to make a big impact on the world through what we did because our two styles complemented each other. And eventually, through a lot of getting your head around it, we ended up getting into it. So, you opened not long before COVID. So, what was the shape of the business going into lockdown and how did things shift as we came back to work after? The shape of the business in terms of the model, do you mean?

Yeah, in terms of what had to change during that time. So, you know, that kind of came out of nowhere for everybody. So, I just wanted a little summary of kind of where we were at before COVID came along. Yeah, well, it's kind of like that saying, everyone's got a plan until you get, everyone's got a plan. So, really, I was never a planner. I was like, let's get in there. Let's get some sales. Let's get people. Let's just do amazing hair. Let's build a community. Let's do that. We were on doing that. And then, we're flying high. Essentially, there was two of us working in the salon. Have we employed somebody by then? I don't think we'd employed anybody by that stage other than assistants. So, we were already high-end hairdressers with high ticket bills, delivering a really good service. And we brought on a girl called Mia, who is now one of our top stylists. She was a trainee. She dropped out hairdressing and was working in Tesco's. So, we had a smallish team. We maybe had another apprentice by this stage looking to grow. We were just about to take the next step, which would have been employing people and then COVID hit. And then we did employ throughout the COVID because there was obviously three of them and we ended up growing. Each time we ended up buying another salon. But up until that point, we were kind of coming out of toddlers. We were toddlers in a way in terms of business. And then, so you mentioned buying another salon. What was the trigger for that? Partly, we were a bit cocky because we won the British Hairdressing Business Awards. We got another business coach who was very gun-ho. I mean, brilliant. Like, he was self-made to himself. But it was all very much like, let's go and get you some deals. Let's grow. Let's make it scalable. Let's systemize the business. Let's do this. And we ended up going in too big, too fast, almost forgetting about what we were already creating in the salon where we were. But we gave it a go. We got as much wrong in as short a space of time as you could possibly get wrong. And it nearly cost us everything. It was the lowest point we could have possibly gone through. Even still now, it's hard not to look back in the rearview mirror. But when we do look back in the rearview mirror, you've got to look at it as a point where it's character building, it's strengthening. You could never go to university and learn what we learned in that. We only had it for a year. You could never learn that in a classroom. You only learned by doing it. So without kind of twisting the knife and pouring salt into any wounds, what kind of lessons were coming out of that then?

So you've hinted that it was a really negative experience. What made it tricky? Well, I wouldn't put it down as a real negative experience. I think that the way it played out wasn't great. The biggest thing, I mean, there was bounce back loans going around and ended up being able to kind of like make it a low cost sale, which was all right. But then we go in there and the... I can't talk about it, so let's get out. The lease was up for renewal, but if you're protected under this 1954 Tenancy Act, when the lease has run out, you can keep it rolling and rolling and rolling and the landlord can't put the rent out and put the rent up as long as you're still paying it. But the rent was double the price of what it should have been because they had done a refurb 15 years ago and they continued to keep paying that. So we said to the landlord, okay, that's fine. We went and got surveys done, all this stuff. Should have gone down half price, but the landlord was horrible. They wanted to double it. They wanted to put it up by 10 grand on top of what it actually was. And then we're having this battle with the landlords and essentially it was like, that was horrible. And then you've got a team of people who hate you because you want to do good for them, but then they've got issues that aren't hair related and you're spreading yourselves way too thin across multiple sites and you're literally trying your best. But these people aren't getting what it is they feel like they need. And then you've got some people saying, look, I know you're not going to change things, but please, can you change it? Because we really want this. It's been the same for too long. So you come in and we did a refurb. We got it all looking amazing, spent a load of money on it. And then the general thing afterwards is like, oh, it's just not as it was. It's not the same as it was. So the biggest lesson I've probably learned from that is when it comes to change management, slow is fast and fast is slow. So really got to ease it all in. And we went in way too fast. We just changed things too quick for the people that were already in there. And it resulted in them turning negative against us as owners when we were really absolutely just trying our absolute best.

It's that reconciliation of culture thing as well. I think whenever you take a business over, it's you're inheriting so much, which isn't your way of doing things or your attitude to change or your attitude to innovation. And I can see why that might be a problem, knowing that you're someone who loves to innovate and loves to change things and loves to move that business conversation forward. So are we now out the other end of that? Have we got rid of the second salon? Are we back down to one again? Yeah. Financially, we're still recovering from it. We're pretty much out the other side of it. We've stabilized it. We built a moat around our Clifton salon. Literally, my second child was being born at the time when that was going on. You're dealing with liquidators. You're dealing with all this other stuff. You've got a child that's being born. You've got team members that are about to have babies themselves. It was a real horrible situation. But at that time, just when I thought we were at our absolute lowest, we were in the salon. And these people came in and said, look, we're from the BBC. We're doing a program called Interior Design Masters. We'd really like to do your salon up. And we were like, OK, cool. It's on a Saturday, Friday and Saturday in a couple of weeks. The show's really good. It'll be aired on BBC. It's like primetime. And we're like, well, we like our salon as it is. And we're trying to save it. We haven't got any money. So no. And then they kept coming back. They came back three times. And eventually they talked us into it. And it aired. It aired a little bit later than it should have, because the World Cup was on in Qatar for football for some reason in winter. They aired it a few months after it should have gone out. But after that, it just catapulted us into everybody kind of knowing who we were, what the salon was. It gave everybody an insight into the salon. And they did a really good job. It was amazing. What a brilliant experience. And how lovely that, you know, just when you're at the lowest ebb, somebody comes along and kind of throws you a line. Here's another one for you then. So that is, somebody mentioned around that time, they said, when you've hit, or when you feel like you've hit rock bottom, that's a really, really good place to be, because the only way is up. You can't go any lower. So at that moment, it was like, okay, cool. So what can we do to go forwards? And in that moment, this thing showed up. It was amazing. Randomly, the same weekend, I ran the London Marathon, which was good community building stuff. But I thought I'd do it in fancy dress, dressed like a whoopee cushion.

As you do it. Things happen. But at the same week, that was the same weekend that it aired on BBC. But I didn't realize when I ran the London Marathon, I was one of these people that were tracked on the way around. And then I got to 18 miles. And when I was all wobbly and a bit tired and hitting the wall, they said, come over here, do an interview, do an interview. So the next thing I know, I'm dressed like a whoopee cushion on the BBC and doing an interview. And they talk about why we're doing it. We're doing it. And it's because of like the cancer, wanting to, people get cancer and wearing hairdressers in the hairdressing relation. Well, we're in a relationship building game. And it's really important that we can open the dialogue for cancer and chemo and all that stuff. So I managed to get that out. And all of a sudden, there was a whole new market of people. And now, for some reason, not for some reason, one of my core client bases are people who have cancer or going through chemo. We're working very closely with Penny Brown UK, who help people live well with cancer. So it's like these moments are there. The opportunities are there. But I feel like we needed to go as low as we could before we could. It's almost like pulling a bow back before we can spring forwards. I think there's some, there's a lot of wisdom in that. And I think that lowest ebb lesson, I think eventually it happens to everybody. It's where it happens in the journey, rather than whether it will. And I think, for me, there was also quite a lot of liberation that came from that low ebb, in that I was very clear when the business started to improve and I started to rebuild, that it would be much more built on my terms. And there were some things that I wouldn't put back in place, however profitable or however useful for the business they've been. They didn't feel aligned with my values. And there was a lot of freedom that came from almost losing everything. And I was determined not to just do whatever it took just to get a few quid through the door, to actually do it with a vision in mind. And that kind of leads me to my next question, in that if you're not a person who particularly likes to plan, is there a vision? Do you have a picture of where the business is going and where ultimately you want this to end up? Yeah. I think the world's changed a lot now. The rate things are changing is huge.

Like I said, we've mentioned you can't plan for a lockdown. You can't plan for AI coming out. You can't plan for all this other stuff. We don't know what the next thing is. We don't know what the next social media is. We don't know what the next business model employed, self-employed is. We don't know what the next tax we're going to be lumped with or tax relief we're going to get. All that type of stuff. Originally, we wanted to be the number one hairdressing brand in the UK. And we put the metric on of having 50 salons around the place. We worked out of 50 cities in the UK, so we thought we'd have one in each and that would be really good. But now we're moving forward with more purpose rather than metrics, but keeping the goals there, but much shorter. Let's get to the next stage. The flags in the ground are much shorter. So what can we do within a year or six months rather than planning for five years? Because I think we've given up on the fact of knowing what the ideal situation is in five years. I know now, realistically, being geographically tied down to a place is really difficult, particularly when you're in the UK. The taxes are really high. You've got rents. You've got the rates. You've got the employee and the staff. You've got all this other stuff that comes with it. So getting more psychologically close to people is a new thing that a lot of people are getting their heads around. And that involves the training and getting the values out there and getting content out there and monetizing other areas. So the goal of having the 50 salons isn't right there right now. But the goal of setting up an online training platform, not necessarily just online, because we still want to we want to build our community within the Bristol area. But we've got space. We're closed on Mondays. So right now we're setting up our academy. It's already set up. We're finalists for Educator of the British Hairdressing Business Awards. We've got something really special going on. Now it's our duty to bring that into our local area and then spread that out. And then from there, if we can bring back the geographical salons and help people that way, then we will. But right now it's about helping on a smaller basis, but to more people, if that makes sense. Sure. Yeah. OK. So is the education side then obviously it's something that's really important to you. But ultimately, business is about fulfilling a need. And if that need wasn't there, that there's no reason for the business. So I'm interested in your view on the kind of the state of education these days.

Where where are we up to as an industry? Because I feel like we've we've sort of turned a bit of a corner. I feel that we lost our way in hairdressing education in the UK for quite a long time. And I feel like we're starting to see some improvement now. But I'm interested in your take. How do you think things are? And where do you see your education fitting into that picture? OK. How do I be nice about it? It's fucked. I don't like it. The, yeah, the, the NVQ is, like my opinion, a waste of time. Like, like for me, education isn't always about getting people to know more stuff. It's about getting them to behave in a way that they don't know how to behave. So to be able to communicate with somebody who's going to be sat in your chair and you're going to be able to really understand them and their needs and then deliver a result that's going to get them to come back six to eight weeks down the line is what we need to be looking at. The NVQ is teaching outdated techniques to people and not giving them the communication skills that they need to be able to come into a real life salon environment and deliver great results. So I suppose that's the joy of having an, uh, apprentices who are working in the salon and going one day a week. They should be learning that in there. Um, but realistically, I mean, our girls were perming the other day. Fine. Like I saw the benefit in the dexterity. Like they were, they were making really lovely clean sections, wrapping the perm papers around the rods and rolling it all up. The dexterity was really good. That would really help them when it comes to hair up. Hmm. We've never done a perm. I've been hairdressing. I dropped out. I came back into hairdressing, let's say, uh, 15, 16 years ago now, never done a perm. Hmm. So why are they still doing perms? Like people like, I don't, do people have them? I don't even know. It's not even a thing we get asked for. Um, but really what people need is real world solutions. And I've realized that I've got to the top of where I am. I'm the highest charging hairdresser that I know of in the Southwest. And one of the reasons for that, or I think the number one reason for that is not because of my ability to cut hair. There's probably better people out there that are good, more skilled in terms of that, but it's the ability to draw out the problem from the client, completely understand what that problem is,

understand the time that you've got to work on it and then deliver a result within that time. And then if you need to create a plan going forwards, then we do that. But it's really, it's about understanding the person, understanding their pain points and what it is, the ideal situation, um, what they'd like it to look like and how they like to feel when they leave the salon. And if you can create that fluffed up with some really amazing service, head massages, relaxation, all the other stuff, then you're onto a winner. So, um, let's also get your opinion then while we're pissing people off. Um, let's get your opinion then around, um, about registration in the UK. What are your thoughts on that? People being registered as registered hairdressers. Is that something they just pay for and you're registered? Um, well, no, I mean, to register as a, the reason, okay. So there's this, um, particularly online, there's this, um, you know, continued call for a raising in standards in hairdressing and beauty as well. Um, and part of that in, in some quarters is that there's no need to be, you know, there's no requirement at the moment for you to be a state registered hairdresser. You don't need to, um, to register. Um, and part of the, the call for the improvement in standards is there's a lot of people saying that that should be mandatory. Then we ought to, we ought to be registered. Um, and I wonder whether you had any opinion in either direction on that. Well, if I were to get my hair cut somewhere, I'd like to know that the person had some kind of, uh, level of experience behind them. Definitely. Okay. I feel like there's certain things. Um, but really, yes, it is, it is, it's a difficult one. I think we do like, I mean, the, the idea of having an NVQ where you're qualified is really great up to a point when you can pass a test, but can you actually fix the problem? Then there's two very different things. Um, if it's a case of you sign up for this registration and then all of a sudden you're registered, but that means that the client has got some protection against you cocking the hair up. Um, I dunno, that's from a, from a client clarity point of view, it's really good. From a employer's point of view. If we're employing people right now, it's, I mean, we rarely look at, we, we, we check, say their NVQ level two, they've been working on the shop floor for three years, but they come in, you can tell within a second when they hold the cone,

whether they can cut hair. Um, a few like questions about color, you can tell whether they're those kinds of people. Hmm. Really. I think the only real way is to come and do some training with no-go hair, shameless plug, do some training with no-go hair and getting a no-go accreditation. But we, we, but then that's how we can let our clients know that they're good enough. Cause we don't let them onto the shop floor unless they are capable of doing it. But then there's always that human error part of it. We've got to try stuff. If people aren't making mistakes, then they're not learning and we're always learning as hairdressers. So having a certificate and a registration shows that you're good enough, but it doesn't show that you're perfect. Perfection isn't a thing. Like there, there'll be no need for the iPhone 13, 14, 15, 16. They've always sold perfection, but they've delivered good enough. So the registration should say that this person is good enough. They can handle chemicals. Well, they can do this. Well, they're, they're safe, but they are, they are an artist. I think that my, my problem with it is that, um, even if it said those things, which it doesn't really. Um, but even if they did, um, what they're saying is that that person was competent and confident once. Um, in the same way as the NVQ shows that you got it right once, it doesn't mean that you've invested in continued education. You haven't carried on improving your standards. You haven't carried on polishing and refining your craft. It just means that you were good enough once. And I think that's, that's my biggest problem with it. So would you say then that communication point that you've come back to a few times now, is that the point of difference as far as no co-education is concerned then? Is it that mastery of the consultation and the communication with the client that sets you apart, do you think? Um, yeah, so one of our key methods is we've unpacked what it takes to become a top stylist. So top means technically on point. So technically on point and we've got a framework called the point framework. So point means that they can find the problem or issue that needs treating. Okay. So the problem could be the physical side of it. So what does it look like that she doesn't like? It's too light. It's too dark.

It's too long. It's too short. It's too short. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. It's going in my eyes. The issue is the emotional side of it. It takes too long to dry in the mornings. It's making me feel old. It just feels frumpy. Once you can establish that, you've got a real problem. It's going to be lighter. I'd like it to be longer. Hair extensions. Great. You've uncovered a whole load of things. They quite often start talking about it's frizzy. It's fluffy. It's all this other stuff that you wouldn't think if you just went in and said so what are we doing today? Or so you booked in for a haircut. What would you like me to do? That kind of consultation is happening all the time. So they go, oh, it's too long. It's too frizzy. Okay, brilliant. So how would you like it to look? Well, I'd like it to be shorter and less frizzy. Fantastic. And how's it making you feel? It just takes too long to dry and I feel really old. Okay. Well, how would you like it to feel? Okay. Well, I'd like it to be quicker to dry in the mornings because I haven't got that much time and I just want to feel younger and create a solution in the middle which is our signature haircuts and the templates and all the blueprints which are designed to fill in the gap between the pain and the payoff. Okay. So that's our point of difference. That's what we work on a lot in terms of training at NocoHairs is uncovering a problem and sorting it out. Mm-hmm. So we've taken that innovative approach to training then but that's not the only area of the business where you're making a change and what I alluded to in my introduction is I really enjoy talking to people who are looking for a different way of doing business and I've always felt that there shouldn't be any part of the business which is sacred. Everything should be up for discussion, up for being torn apart, put back together in a better way. And I want to talk a little bit about memberships because that's one of the ways that I know that you've worked with me on putting memberships in place. And also you've got a different way of looking at service in the salon, haven't you? Do you want to just talk to people about that? Yeah, I mean we're at a period right now where we are doing exactly what you just said,

ripping the model apart, nothing sacred and then putting it all back together. When you do that it becomes quite messy but when you can simplify it down to its very smallest detail then it becomes something that you can sell and you can, yeah, it's all about creating clarity. Everybody wants an easy life whether that's a client, a salon owners, a team members or that type of thing. From the memberships point of view, yeah, we worked with you right at the beginning. There was never any system software that really kind of supported us with that. So we're trying our best to use different things. And in recent times, in the last few months we've been able to find things that we can work with. ChatGPT is fantastic for helping you sort solutions out like this. But one thing that you're never going to take away that tech can't bring is loyalty. And everybody that we set up as a member right at the beginning is still a member. And they've been loyal and they've been paying consistently. And it almost like it just comes out of their account as part of their fixed costs, their personal fixed costs. They love their visits and they've become more than clients. They're friends. They're great people. And that's been part of our business journey really. So now's the time to start figuring it out and amplifying that. Okay. From a bigger level. And I love that memberships have been part of your journey. And just for context for everybody, that was kind of literally from day one that you have memberships in place, wasn't it? So, but also you're doing something interesting with the way that you think about the way service is delivered or certainly the way the service is booked in the salon. So let's talk a little bit about that too. Yeah. So one of the most difficult things with memberships was the variety. Hairdressing services traditionally come with complexity. Some people come every six weeks. Some people come every eight weeks. Some people come every 12 weeks. Some people have long hair. Some people have short hair. Some people have lots of oils. Some people have a partial highlight. So there's millions of things. Some people have treatments. Some people have toners. Some people don't. So, but what we realized is when we start figuring out the pain and the payoff and you're looking at the overall picture, you're generally looking at fixing somebody's hair altogether.

And from that, we just ended up selling pretty much everybody a treatment. It just became part of it. Like it was just, but we're going through the same conversation every time. So we just essentially just started to put together all inclusive packages because they were having them anyway. So an all inclusive package is much easier to sell than lots of different. I mean, we can do it on a micro level. We can definitely do it where someone like you can individually take, you can get a history of somebody and then individually tailor the way that they do stuff. But we wanted to make it more of a blanket thing to start off with. The clients that we've got on there now, the guests, I should say, they're all people who come in for a haircut every six weeks. And that's been our most popular one. So we wanted to stretch that out so other people could have it. And to do that, we needed to look at the model changing more from services to sessions. And you also, one of the biggest things that I've found since we've done that is people value it a little bit more. Imagine if like a gardener came around to your house and they just said, oh, it's going to be this. Like there's always a bit of like, oh, would you do a bit of a better deal for me? Like there's always that thing. But when it's a product, like you don't argue about the price of petrol. Like people just see it as a product. It's got a name, it's got a brand, it's a thing, which is good because that's what it is. Because you're essentially selling time in that chair. And if that client doesn't come in or anything like that, then we're still paying for the rent. The idea is that we sell sessions which are more all inclusive, where everybody knows exactly where they stand. There's no hidden exits that are added on. And they can spread the cost throughout the year. So rather than having an expensive month and then like a cheaper month, but holding off before they have another expensive month, it's just completely spread out. And they can consistently look good all the time. But moving to a session based product system is more about creating clarity within the business and consistency for everybody. Consistency is a good thing. I've always said when it comes to the business side of things, a little bit of boring is OK. It's OK to have some predictability and a bit of consistency and some stability around at least a section of the income. So do you have an idea in mind of how much you want that consistent income to contribute to the business?

Have you got like a magic percentage? What are we aiming for? Well, one of the things that we worked with you right at the beginning is once you've got your fixed costs covered, that's a great thing, particularly your rent. Rent's obviously a big deal, but yeah. So once you know your fixed costs are covered, everything else on top of that is your bonus, really. It's a good place to be, getting fixed costs done. And I highly encourage anybody, no matter the size of your business, to start getting some stability in there, get some consistent income. And if you don't know where to start, think about just covering your rent. We're at the stage now where it's rent, business rates, fixed part of our wages, all of those fixed costs, all of the utilities, all covered by recurring income. And it's an absolute joy. So what's next on the journey then? So right now we're working on education. The road of business and relying on, this is no fault of the colleges. We're working closely with Reflections Training Academy in Bristol. Brilliant college, they do their job, they get people to NVQ level 2 qualified. Our mission is to bridge that gap between qualification and being good enough to cut hair on the shop floor. So we're working with our training academy where we've got an online hub and an online platform where we're recording the videos and the how to's. The learners can go onto there and learn real world solutions and have training days within our salon. The idea is that we work closely with people like L'Oreal, our partners, and we spread that out as far as we can. But right now we're building an education system that's going to strengthen our salon but really looking to redefine the shape of hairdressing in the UK. There's a lot of self-employed people who aren't getting the training that they need and there's a lot of people coming out of college who aren't good enough to get self-employed anyway. They need to work in an employed salon but they're also not good enough to get a job in an employed salon. So for me it's our duty that we can help these people go through to work on real world solutions and become confident hairdressers. Love it. And if anybody wanted to follow your journey or get in touch, what's the best way for them to reach out to you? So follow me Noel at NoCoHair on Instagram. Send me DMs. I'm always happy to give advice on training and education.

I got into hairdressing later on. I mean I did it when I left school but I dropped out of it for 10 years or so. I was about 27 when I got back into it. So I've got this kind of affiliation or this kind of need to help older learners because you're really up against it. Please do send me a message if you're thinking you want to get into it. I've been through the journey. I know what it takes. Or if you're just thinking about getting into hairdressing. There's lots of cool things. Yeah, obviously. Academy at NoCoHair.com is our website. Superb. And I want to finish with my three quick fire questions. And I've started letting people know what these questions are ahead of time now. It used to be a surprise but there's too many episodes now and everybody knows what's coming anyway. So you had a chance to think about them. But what's the best piece of advice that you've ever been given? I didn't think about these before on purpose but I'm going to think about just for one second. What you're not changing, you're choosing. That's a real powerful one. I love that. I have a version of that which I live with every day which is basically anything in your life is there because you chose it or you allow it to continue to be. And it's hugely empowering to think in those terms, I think. I love that. It's also kind of scary because it means everything's your fault. But it empowers you then to make the changes that you need to. I love that. So you've been through a lot. Some tough times and ultimately some great stuff too and lots more to come no doubt. If somebody was inspired by your journey, what piece of advice would you leave behind for them? Another great question. Regret only comes at the end. Don't leave anything out there on the table. It is all or nothing. Go all in. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to piss a few people off. But you're also going to improve a lot of people's lives by you going out there and becoming the best version of you. Just don't get to the end of something and regret not taking that chance.

I love that too. And you've been in the industry for a fair time. You've done a few turns of the square. What's the best thing about working in the civil industry? I think it's the unlimited success. There's no limit to how far you can go. And there's always new things. I mean, I always look at the food industry and think, God, imagine being in Africa and smelling the food and tasting the food over there and then being in South America and all that. But it's exactly the same from a hair point of view. You can travel. You've done hair all over the world now. And you get to meet different people and there's different textures, different fabrics, different techniques. There's all this amazing stuff, whether you're working on hair or within the business or just meeting people. So the fact that it's unlimited, really, in terms of resources and success, it's just an incredible industry. I love it. And I can tell that you do too. Just give people your Instagram handle again, because I'm sure people are going to be reaching out to you after they've heard your story. Nice one. It's Noel underscore NoCoHair. Noel underscore NoCoHair. And I'll put the link in the show notes too. Thanks so much for your time today, Noel. It's been wonderful touching base with you and I'm sure we're going to get you back on the podcast again soon. Thanks, Phil. So there we have it. My conversation with Noel Halligan. What a wonderful guy. Wonderful journey. And I hope plenty of inspiration in there for you too. Why not reach out and let me know what you thought. My email address scrolling at the bottom of the screen right now. Phil at buildyoursalon.com I'd also love you to reach out if you'd like to be on a future episode of the Build Your Salon podcast. I'd love to be sharing your journey with my wonderful Build Your Salon podcast listeners. Just seven short days until I'm coming in your ears again with another dose of my Wise Hour wisdom. And until then, take care.